Daily Kos

David Lynch is a God-Warrior

by howth of murph

Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 09:33:04 PM PDT

I just watched "Fire, Walk With Me" for the umpteenth time.

I'm convinced that David Lynch's whole oeuvre is based on the exposure of sex-and-power memes and structures that should be unacceptable to any conscientious human being.  I'd like to say that he wants to (at first) question the patriarchal clan-rape nature of football towns... and he dares go way deeper.

There is a death-and-pain-eating proclivity among the powerful. They demand garmonbozia, and the parades and displays and consumer-frenzy just feed it.

Bohemian Grove is not just a swell time for the fellas.  Listen carefully, and kick these sick fucks to the curb.

Tags: David Lynch, movie (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 39 comments

  •  I know his son, (none / 0)

    cool guy.

    by js noble on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 09:39:14 PM PDT

  •  Wow... (none / 0)

    ...I adore David Lynch; in fact, he is one of my great inspirations, and I couldn't disagree with you any more about what he's up to.

    The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

    by Jay Elias on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 09:44:25 PM PDT

    •  I'm cool with the disagreement (none / 0)


      And I may have made generalizations, but I'd dig discussions in totality.

      the blue sea seethes with reason

      by howth of murph on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 09:49:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well... (none / 0)

        ...I believe that Lynch is a neo-Jungian, interested in the conflicts and contradictions demanded by our exteral representations and our darker impusles.  His films are, with the exception of his Dune, utterly apolitical; politics only presents itself directly as farce, and textually as symbols of outside manipulation and control.

        The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

        by Jay Elias on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 09:53:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  People don't often mention (none / 0)

          the disparity, although the sick twisted is always noticed,not often is it mentioned just how extreamly exaggerated the wholesome, sweetness. It makes the fifties nuculer family look depraved in comparison. After watching his movies so many times,I now seem to get more enjoyment laughing at just how absurdly cute the "normal" world is in his movies, even more than being floored bythe fucked up depraved shit I initialy got into Lynch for in the first place.

          "Just when they think they know the answer, I change the question!" -Roddy Piper

          by McGirk SF on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 03:58:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Blue Velvet (none / 0)

    My favorite Lynch movie is Blue Velvet. I've always loved the idea that behind every white picket fence is a secret life hidden from view. Lynch uses the metaphor of a home's lawn.

    From an aesthetic perspective, a finely cut lawn is beautiful. But if you look at it deeper, you see all the bugs & nasty things that exist beneath the surface.

    by Rimjob on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 09:44:38 PM PDT

    •  Since we kinky people (4.00 / 2)

      live among you behind picket fences--you never know what's behind those suburban doors.  We are your neighbors, bosses, coworkers, doctors, nurses, lawyers, accountants and school teachers.  We're also soldiers and sailors.

      I just wish Lynch's version of kink wasn't so unpleasant.  I suspect he really as very little RL experience with it.

      Play parties are like church socials--covered dish and all-except that after a while people get naked and go down to the dungeon and play with whips.  But the conversation upstairs is as likely to be about politics and movies and books and gossip as about sex.  More likely, in fact.

      A friend of mine in  Avery silly book  took my description and ran with it--sub sandwiches, made by real submissives, are served in one scene.

      The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

      by irishwitch on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 10:31:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  love your sig (none / 0)

        "They're telling us something we don't understand"
        General Charles de Gaulle, Mai '68

        by subtropolis on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 12:29:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Both the good and bad (none / 0)

        are exagerated to the extreme. But yeah,I live in San Francisco and even here with all the vices on the table,its actully fairly normal people partaking. They just don't have to hide it as much in their normal lives.

        "Just when they think they know the answer, I change the question!" -Roddy Piper

        by McGirk SF on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 04:04:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  3 words, Folson Street Fair n/t (none / 0)

          fact does not require fiction for balance

          by mollyd on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 06:03:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Which proves what? (none / 0)

            That people like to dress up?

            Ever go to a dance club? I've seen odder getup there than at most dungeons.  Heck, gay pride parades are usually wilder.

             Down here, the dungeon crowd is incredibly staid in clothing taste--it looks like a church social until the clothes come off.  I'm, usually the most outrageously dressed in a corset and a PVC skirt and boots. And I am COVERED. Completely.

            At munches, civvies are REQUIRED since we meet in public restaurants.

            Except for sexual tastes--and stats show that a LOT, if not the majority,  of normal  non-kinky types do a little spanking or role playing or use blindfolds or light bondage--we ARE your neighbors.

            The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

            by irishwitch on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 02:56:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  actually (none / 0)

              We had an in street flogging fundraiser at one years fair.

              But yes, I agree we talk about real estate, exchange recipes and such at most play parties.  

              fact does not require fiction for balance

              by mollyd on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 05:48:13 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  We've been kinky since 94 (none / 0)

                when I got up the guts to hand my husband Exit to Eden--and found out his teenage fantasies were based on The Perils of Gwendolyn.  Could only play alone and with one pal we met on the Net till 2001--military bases aren't conducive to alternative lifestyles.

                The Maine group was great--open, fun,  sane.  We were in a performance troupe up there. But down here, it's such a  big scene that it's not welcoming to newcomers. And the pl;aystyle is very non-sensual, more "pick up that bullwhip and go for it" play.  Plus weare Seriously Elder Leather Goths--and the groups here ae real age-segregated. Too old for the Leather Goths, too Goth for the middle-aged crowd. We kinda dropped out. Atlanta was a huge disappointment.

                And if Dad moves up here--it means an end to serious play for a few years.  We're looking for a house with the master suite on the other side from his room--and it may help he's deaf,a nd I'm not noisy.

                Couldn't do a public flogging here. The police pretty much made it impossible to play anywhere but a home or a private membership club (heck, even Fantasm the kinky horror con closed down for that reason--too much harassment, hotels too conservative to rent to us).

                The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                by irishwitch on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 08:34:06 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  by 94 things had changed a bit (none / 0)

                  My book came out in 95 and now seems almost quaint in areas. In the 80s it was a more private scene. This ebbs and flows.  

                  fact does not require fiction for balance

                  by mollyd on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 10:15:22 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Yeah, I'm aware things were much more underground (none / 0)

                    before the Net.  But I didn't discover it via the Net--but from a book. De Sade and his ilk ware a huge turnoff, and most of the porn was for men.  In fact, the not-quite-porn-because-there-is no-sex of John Norman  was enough to make me bury my desires for literally 2 decades.

                    This area is just very snobbish and snotty "I Know all the people who matter and I don't know you, so you can't be important" attitude.  They don't need new people., so they make no real effort to  be nice to them.  When we'd go to the dungeon, we'd see newbies wandering around, and we'd end up being the only people talking to the,. It got old, and the dungeon got expensive, so we said "f***it". Getting naked in front of folks I don't much like wasn't a lot of fun anyway.

                    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                    by irishwitch on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 10:19:49 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Did you write Screw the ROses? (none / 0)

                    Because I adore that book.  Best one on the subject for new people.

                    I write erotica--used to write fantasy stories, and am working on a kinky vamp novel...

                    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                    by irishwitch on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 10:21:09 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  Were you the one... (none / 0)

      who found the ear?

      by modchick65 on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 06:33:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Oh please. (none / 0)

    Not Bohemian Grove.

    It's a load of crap. There is no New World Order.

    Yes, Bush has been to Bohemian Grove.

    Harry Shearer also went there (and then made a movie mocking it). He's ultra-left wing.  Are you really claiming Bush and Harry Shearer are part of the same vast conspiracy?

    Stop listening to Alex Jones' bullshit and get a dose of reality. It's just a club for the super-rich to get their freak on.

    Flying Squid Studios - Cartoons to Rot Your Brain!

    by Arken on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 09:48:45 PM PDT

    •  What freaks me (none / 1)


      Are these ostensibly Christian men behaving like pagans. I don't think their constituency would approve... nor would I engage in that kind of frat-boy behaviour, because it scares me and seems really wrong.

      the blue sea seethes with reason

      by howth of murph on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 09:53:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry, I believe in science, not magic. (none / 0)

        Dancing around to silly faux-pagan rituals doesn't really mean anything in my book. Millions of people do it every year when they do things like hunt for easter eggs (originally part of a pagan fertility rite) or decorate a christmas tree (part of a pagan solstice celebration).

        But then if you're scared of people performing such rituals, you'd probably run screaming from an old atheist like me.

        Flying Squid Studios - Cartoons to Rot Your Brain!

        by Arken on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 09:56:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not scared (none / 1)


          so much as puzzled. I find it upsetting that powerful men belong to secret societies and play at booga-booga shite.  Throw in whores and golf and I can see why it might carry on.

          the blue sea seethes with reason

          by howth of murph on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 09:59:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  What he means, I think, (4.00 / 2)

          is that most of these folks would be first in line to light the bonfires for REAL pagans like me.  Yet they play at it.

          The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

          by irishwitch on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 10:27:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  same here (none / 0)

          Except you're ignoring the One Truth about magic and ritual: it's what you make it. Every year there are stories about people being maimed or killed in some ritual or other. Last year, it was these crazy fuckers in Italy, cutting their friends up in the forest for some "satanic" reason or other. The people doing that shit are most certainly "fucked up" and i'm sure i wouldn't see the same crazy shit they think they're conjuring.

          But nor would i feel very comfortable hanging around for the torch singing.

          The point isn't that it's all stuff and nonsense. It's something some people latch onto that allows them get their shit done. Sometimes (props to irishwitch) that leads to some pretty freaky stuff. Sometimes it can be quite dangerous to the unsuspecting bystander when deranged people bid Papa Legba open the gate.

          "They're telling us something we don't understand"
          General Charles de Gaulle, Mai '68

          by subtropolis on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 12:45:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I've heard several people say.. (none / 0)

    DL is homophobic. Is that true? Don't know enough about him.

    by gladkov on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 09:49:11 PM PDT

  •  All I want to know is (none / 0)

    Who is Bob?

    Really.

    Who or What is Bob?

    by Ernest T Bass on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 09:59:03 PM PDT

  •  Errrr (none / 0)

    The owls are not what they seem.

    True story: Jack Nance was my nextdoor neighbor when I lived in Los Angeles in the early 80's.

    A very sweet, strange man. I was really sad to hear that he had died.

    by fblau on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 10:02:18 PM PDT

  •  My whole point.... (none / 0)

    ... and I hope that Lynch would agree, is that desire grown sick might be headed off by questions and reflection. And that as above, so below; compassion must be greater than desire or the impulse for cruelty.

    the blue sea seethes with reason

    by howth of murph on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 10:18:02 PM PDT

  •  ya know (none / 0)

    I've never really liked David Lynch's films.  Most of my friends really love them and think they are great, and thats cool, but I've never really liked them.  However, I really like David Lynch for having the Smashing Pumpkins do the song "Eye" on the Lost Highway soundtrack.  What's the point?  Nothing, I've just had a few drinks and now I think I'll fire up Amarok and listen to that song.  Thanks for reminding me.

    by redstatewoes on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 10:44:49 PM PDT

  •  I don't know a damn thing about David Lynch (none / 0)

    but I have a serious love/hate relationship with people who talk about David Lynch. Mostly because they very rarely talk about actual plot points, and go straight damn for the "patriarchal clan-rape" and "garmonbozia" (help, mr. google), and neo-jungian blah blah blah, and every Lynch fan has a completely different take on the movies, so at the end of it, you have no fucking clue what happened in the movie, and no desire to go rent it.

    I saw like, the first 20 min. of Fire Walk w/ Me. Deeply bizare.

    (exgirlfriend and our exboss were both huge fans, and would talk past me about him for hours. Still have no clue what any of those movies are about, dispite having absorbed literally hours of "No, No, what David Lynch is really trying to say is...")  

    Capitalism and Nationalism are not your friends. God? Maybe.

    by Ihowl on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 10:55:09 PM PDT

    •  You have a point (none / 0)

      Maybe Lynch's real motivation was to make something which actively involved the viewier so that those type of discussions ('no, no, no, he really meant this...) would result. While in reality, the films were obscure and open-ended purposefully, viewers were left to impose their own value-systems and thought-processes on what they were supposed to mean. Rarely recognizing that what the film means and how one perceives the film can't be separated. And so, at the end of the day, we're still left with a somewhat lacking and grasping attempt at defining his obscure works with some calling them mundame, others brilliant, others puzzling. All right depending on what they bring to the table.

      His films lack analytical pinning, much like some of the best authors, ie. Beckett, Auster, Eco, Abe, etc. Piecing together the narrative in a sensible fashion (required because of the film's non-linear sequencing), requires a more-than-average active viewer. That is what makes Lynch's works so gripping, psychological and subjective (with the exception of The Straight Story, which is beautiful but thematically and structurally different from anything else Lynch has done).

      'Everybody's born-again these days; if you're not born-again you're dead, you're out of touch, yours is a minority view, you lose.' Barthelme 'Nat.Sel.'

      by jorndorff on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 01:31:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The thing with FWWM (none / 0)

      is the difference of opinion between those who avidly wached the series and those who didn't. If you wached the series without missing too many episodes,you already knew the whole deal with Laura Palmer. Those fans are usully more impressed with Sheryl Lee's performance. You already knew exactly what was going to happen next in every scene once she appeared in the movie, yet were still emotianally floored by her. I think she gave one of the best acting performances of that decade.
      People who only slightly familiar with the series, or didn't watch it at all, usully don't like it.They look at it too much as some kind of pedophelia fantasy or something.

      "Just when they think they know the answer, I change the question!" -Roddy Piper

      by McGirk SF on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 04:22:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What do you mean by "God-Warrior?" (none / 0)

    Do you mean someone like the highly upset woman on the TV show Trading Spouses?

    I thought her fifteen minutes of fame had passed but if she has instead morphed into a standard comic character like the hippy-dippy weatherman or the upper-class twit those minutes may last for years.

    by jpk on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 11:49:16 PM PDT

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